Being shamed for gatekeeping narcissists


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Comment (611)

  1. This one was for me. I am staying away now. Trust me it's not easy. You get judged, slandered and they will demand explanations as if they own you and get very angry. My response …silence. It is not comfortable but happiness over popularity. I have set boundaries and intend to stick to them. Finally taking control of my life for once!

  2. The more I learn about this huge issue, the more I only talk to others who are in the know. I recently got told by an enabler that I couldn't understand or even have an opinion about relationships because I'm not in one. I reminded her that I can remember but it still stings as being so supremely unfair!

  3. When I was discared by the narcissist, I lost almost my entire family overnight. He is the one that cheated, lied, abandoned, and continued to financially abuse me and our kids. None of the flying monkeys (my former family) believe anything I say, so now I just don't bother. I have accepted the loss and deal with the grief on my own.

  4. It comes down to values, know your values and hold to those values to the bitter end. Gauge there's by them keeping them in check. I'm a trans-narcisist now, through and beyond. Not a survivor but a thriver and can now help others. Align your values with those of James in the new testament. Great place to practice good values. Narcs do not like James in their face. . Cheers

  5. Thank you so much for this video, Dr. Ramani – I'm the secretary of an incredibly narcissistic board of directors. In fact, I'd say the board is quickly evolving into a haven for narcissistic behavior. But – there's always that but – I made a commitment to the institution, so I'm staying on the board. Now I'm the "problem", but DISCERNMENT tells me I'm being true to myself, and that is all I need to finish my term. Plus,… it's kinda fun upsetting the apple cart from time to time 😁.

  6. This is where I am at, not waiting for others to sign off on my decision. I find there’s so many enablers around me it seems like I just need to keep it all quiet, which is hard. But it’s better than being gaslit and forced into things I’m not ok with. Thank you 🙏

  7. People certainly do not like discernment. They feel you should handle life like it’s an open door policy. They think you’re stuck up, because you’re protective of yourself. Many of these people don’t recognize what lack of discernment has done to their lives, because the standard is, “As long as you have someone.” They actually double down on their dislike of discernment, too. As an example, I know that it’s possible that, since I won’t be my neighbor’s free caregiver and, perhaps? Care for her dog, that if I had an emergency, she might not want to dial 911. So, people are very punishing about it.

    I’m even discerning about going somewhere in a car, with a friend, because I’ve found that they may not be in as much of a hurry to get to a destination or return, whether or not I have an appointment. To many, it sounds controlling. But, what I’m really trying to do is to ensure I’m not being controlled by someone else’s lack of interest or urgency, in something which may be important to me. I understand they just don’t have a dog in my hunt. But, it’s no reason to be at their whim either. So, I’d rather spend than share the cost of gas sometimes, because otherwise, it can feel like I’ve been sent out to sea and will return on a devil may care time schedule.

    I’ve learned during the past few years, what lack of discernment is like, where family is concerned, because you’re born into it. While I’m in the legal process of severing a sibling, both she and my mother have cost me time, money, pursuit of goals, because I couldn’t immediately just “discern” them from my life. Im deeply-saddened by not knowing what I was looking at and extricating myself far sooner.

    Not being discerning, essentially, means dropping your self respect, standards, life and even safety, for the purpose of having ANYone in your life. While people quite often must do it? Just to survive, it’s a sad mark on human life, that circumstances often push us into codependence, even if we are actually quite discerning. It is a very big pull to swallow and, if you’re at all conscious and have any sense of self-preservation, you hate every second of it.

  8. Discernment is a very important gift of the Holy Spirit. Most Christians like to tell others not to judge when others question their clergies’ characters and source of money. Well, judgement is reserved for God but discernment is necessary for all human beings.

  9. "You're not a team player. We don't like your attitude here. You are too introverted." has got me fired 4 times, because I don't give in my narcissistic coworkers/ bosses bullshit. No regrets tho, the trash sometimes takes itself out.

    Dr. Ramani thank you for your wisdom, your strength and your humanity to keep helping us out to stay sane. You bring so much joy and support into my days, there are not enough words to thank you for what you do.

  10. I've told my friends that "Forgiveness should not be the shackles that bind you to abuse." You can forgive and accept someone as they are while understanding that you simply cannot be around them and that's fine.

  11. I was discerning with a individual on a group I was part of and even another fellow in the group was on the same page as I was with him and gave the guy I was discerning with the benefit of the doubt but nope I should have went with my original view of that guy. There was also another guy that I was discerning with in the group but he was not trying to hide his feelings by tribal gaslighting and such (thank goodness Doc spoke on that subject the other day). Well I'll stick my my instincts and say to myself "A Redflag is a Redflag dude".

  12. My mind is literally racing these days. I think I'm a narcissist, but I'm in a situation with another narcissist. I'm making excuses for them showing empathy….but now I'm thinking I'm only being empathetic to win them back and destroy them.
    So lost right now…

  13. Virus_Pattern : this is an old computer terminology (back from the eighties – this stuff is literally ancient!). This "data situation" maps almost identically to "shame". So …..does some "binary language object" need to GO_OBSOLETE on me?? Where_is_that_location?? Honestly, this is where the money is. Frequently, I'm not SUPER sure what's going on with these "gate shamers" ….but is their "Smartphone" still on?? Is it Connected?? Maybe these "computer shamers" should just go and complain about "viral" somewhere appropriate. Honestly, we're all stocked up here. Try me! C'mon, it'll be fun! Thanks again, Doctor! 🙏

  14. Lol this is exactly what I have in one of my friend groups. Luckily people dont really say anything about me keeping my distance from the 1 toxic person, but when I've brought it up before with individuals, they get so uncomfortable. Its so annoying

  15. I believe the enablers are worse than the narcissist themselves because many of them only see what they want to see and they’re in denial. They’re very selfish and only care to be insightful and discerning when the issue affects them. Notice how when they find out they’ve been a victim too of the narcissist they suddenly start to see the narcissist for who they are and distance themselves. I’ve found the enablers really are pretentious and in denial because they’re either receiving benefits from the narcissist and don’t want their supply to end or they don’t want to be bothered by the narcissist so they quickly do what the narcissist asks…but at the expense of the victim/target. The enablers are more dangerous than the narcissist because the narcissist makes it clear what side he/she stands on but the enabler often plays naive, oblivious and neutral. In a war between good vs evil I see the enabler as the one who plays stupid just to lure the good guy into darkness. Because while the good guy is chasing after the enabler to get them to understand or see the truth he/she has no clue that the enabler has always known and is leading them right to the narcissist (darkness).

  16. I practice discernment by writing down red flags. Once you see the red flags pile up you'll start to wonder why you're still around this person. People are like water, some are like the ocean where you can look in and clearly see, some have seaweed which makes you uncomfortable just looking, some are like a lake that's a little cloudy but still safe, some are murky and filled with critters and you can't go in at all, but the same way you look at the water and slowly decide, that's how you can look at people as you practice discernment. You can ask yourself, "what kind of water is this person" are they a crystal clear blue ocean that looks inviting, or are they a swamp bubbling at the surface.

  17. You cannot open the doors to your home to everyone, without jeopardizing your own safety. People must earn the privilege to enter your home, there's a level of work that has to be there. Perhaps your "friends" were the toxic one's , for refusing to listen to you!

    I've been there, too! Especially, in the Martial art/Fighting "community"! There's a overwhelming amount of Narcissistic Rabbits (People), in that world. That and education, places that it shouldn't be.

  18. This is a major benefit to being Autistic: we have no social status, so most people are very much up-front with us, both the abusers and flying monkeys. Do you really want to have to endure either? Very helpful "weeding out" process.

  19. I've traveled the world, spoken before Congress, written books, and am self-made. Yet, each time I detox my life, another Narcissist steps into my life. My grandmother, partners, professors, friends, family, and neighbors. Its soul-shattering. I'm still figuring things out, but I know one thing for certain-I no longer allow myself to excuse abuse. I won't justify hurting myself. Pouring into others who will abuse me. There's always someone who won't see your worth. I'm no longer allowing that person to be me.

  20. "Better alone than surrounded by d***heads!" And "No, I don't have to give everyone a chance. Chance tickets are a limited commodity. Like trust, they are earned ."
    I don't care if everyone experiences a person as an angel. If I'm getting bad vibes from them, it's my prerogative to steer clear. It's not about being right about the person. It's all about that person not being right for me. My reasons don't have to be good enough for anybody else.

  21. If I were to go over to these Narcissist's house and SMASH THEIR ROUTER, then how is their "smart shame computer" going to remain functioning? I'd be doing the world a favor! Seriously, it's a really good question. Mainly because they kinda FAIL this router question EVERY_SINGLE_TIME …and for rather obvious reasons that are kinda difficult for them to explain. Mostly, because they are statically unconnected to the Internet. In truth, this is a Really_Well_Known_Issue. Please keep the shame to a minimum while we work diligently to solve this complicated problem.

    <wall of shame ensues>

  22. One of my favorite bs responses from narcissistic enablers is “well I guess I’m just more empathetic!”
    Way to pat yourself on the back for tolerating bad behavior.

  23. Something too many girls get told, one way or another, when they are young, is, "*You're* not all that pretty. You can't afford to be so fussy!" (Sometimes said by more socially adept friends; sometimes by a "faded beauty" mother).

  24. Thank you so much for this. I am dealing with this issue right now for noticing red flags and manipulation, but the friends of the narcissist are trying to make me out to be the one with the problem. I'm okay with being the problem for being in solidarity with my own well-being. I am not available to be abused or mistreated.

  25. exactly right, the feeling I got was that I was the one with the problem ,I even though I knew my gut instincts were right and this person wasn't genuine, had no empathy and was never available to help out when needed . I kept hoping for change and it never came , everything was on their terms . I feel a fool and taken in by them but lesson learned all be it rather late .

  26. This reminds me of a scene in a show called The OA. Main character said she thought if she put out her big beautiful net she’d catch only beautiful things. What she caught was a despicable predator who enslaved her. I totally understood the allegory in that show.
    No more nets. Filters and boundaries are The Way.

  27. Hi Dr Ramani i have been following you several years now, i would like to thank you for giving me the knowledge & the tools to leave & to now become a survivor, you have also taught me how to manage my emotions whilst co parenting with the narc, i will be truly grateful to you for the rest of my life, lots of hugs & kisses from the uk.

  28. 🤦🏿‍♀️If I feel hurt after my ex narcisist discarded me and I want to sabotage his future relationships with all of his old and new supplies? It makes me a horrible person? Am I became a narcissist too? How do I move pats and let go that depressed and angry envy feeling ? I don’t want to be this horrible person but it’s so difficult to control I’m shocked don’t know how to deal with myself 🤦🏿‍♀️🤦🏿‍♀️🤦🏿‍♀️🤦🏿‍♀️🤦🏿‍♀️

  29. I feel like any time I've ever expressed anything in relations to other peoples similar traumatic situations, I always seem to get that they tend to have this better you than me type attitude, and they seem to express things the way they feel as you should and/or are. I have said well so you guys have just summed up exactly how you guys feel. I'm a hairdresser I work at sport clips and and it just It seems like that's just the aura add everyone of these shops. I could be wrong but I'm hopeful. Thank you doctor Ramani

  30. When you become certain that the person you are dealing with is lacking in integrity and is willing to turn a blind eye to shady, destructive, even violent behavior, it is best to disengage and fade away. People who constantly cut corners and violate others’ boundaries are not your friends.

  31. Dr. Ramani, we will probably never meet, but I have watched so many of your videos over the past few months! Thank you for helping me to make sense of what has happened to my life. Signing the divorce papers today. Time to create a healthy life for myself and my amazing daughters.

  32. I've got the same experience with ex-mother-in-law who would always say to me:"Nobody is perfect…gife him some slack..he works so hard..he doesn't beat you, what are you complaining about? It's your fault he treats you like this, you are a doormat"

  33. …develope callousness…..I think I'm 2x….what's the next stage, tumorous? 😁 my callousness is like natural construction gloves…
    I'm silly

    Thank you DrRamani 😊

  34. My sweet gf is the truth teller in her small immediate family and they they all give her a tough time. Daughter included. She Is keeping her from her grandson. It’s heartbreaking.

  35. This is soo true. I've been going through this after a close freind gaslighted me. I've gone silent to her and not said anything to anyone (except hubby). She recently sent a postcard saying I'm sorry "if " I hurt you. Lol, classic! I let her off the hook and said I forgave her and moved on.. I'm sure she wanted to reconnect. Nope! "Fool me once shame you, fool me twice shame on me"

  36. I wonder how many of us have friends or family who don't like us watching these videos and learning about narcissism.

    I have a friend who knows I do this and they expressed concern about it in a way that came across to me like they thought I was learning harmful stuff or wasn't intelligent enough to understand this content correctly (but they are). Unfortunately for that person I have begun distancing as I have been seeing so many red flags I can't ignore it anymore. Dr. Ramani was probably right when she said people might be afraid we'll detect red flags in them. Great video!

  37. It has been very surprising to me…. I am under no illusion that life is going to be easy. My financial future is kinda scary. Not going to lie. But so many long-time friends, who haven't been around us in so long, begging me to consider working it out, "for my own good". 😳

  38. 😅 I hate to laugh but, my vulnerable & communal narc mother said those exact words to me concerning my intentionally severed relationship with my grandiose & communal narc youngest sister. Mind you, she accused me and my husband if being ungrateful and assuming ourselves to be perfect while in the process of unexpectedly popping up and harassing me at my door after I had been no contact with her.

  39. This is to a side point that Dr. Ramani made, and makes in many of her videos, but it's amazing how much my narcissist tells me that I'm the problem. She uses a classic method of poking a puppy with a stick, until finally, the puppy snaps, and then she says, "this puppy snapped at me!" so to speak. Yet, she constantly tells me that the only reason we fight is because of me. She also throws words around viciously and never wants to be held accountable for them. In fact, the notion of being held accountable for what she says, she refers to as, "me twisting her words against her." She will also say things to me, and then chastise me for taking them literally when they upset me, yet on the same coin, she also likes to say things to me, and if I 'don't treat those things as literal, then, I simply wasn't listening, didn't care, or am a horrible person. Whichever way makes her 'win' and me 'lose', that's what happened, and I read it wrong, notwithstanding the notion that words in and of themselves have meaning (calling me a baby for having emotions is calling me a baby, period, and not nice).

  40. It turned out in my life looking backwards, ONLY Narcs/Enablers/toxics in all colours used to say to I am the difficult one!!! 😂 I used to be a scapegoat/truther-mix. No I don‘t care what they say anymore. It mirrors only there character and has nothing to with me. Except the fact, that my (proven!) intelligence and obvious talents triggers their stuff. Not my business anymore.

  41. I absolutely can't tell you just how fitting and timely this really was for me today, because I had actually been struggling with very topic/issue immediately before watching your video on this today!

  42. I recently had the experience of being gaslit for quietly distancing myself from a toxic person. I turned it around and gaslit the gaslighting enabler. "What!? What are you talking about? Why would you say such a thing? Are you trying to stir up trouble? Gee, you are such a negative person. Your negative energy is getting me down. I prefer to be around positive people." Wouldn't work with a narc. But the look of confusion on this enablers face was priceless. I get so tired of these enablers!

  43. Oh my gosh! Thank you! I needed to hear this. It’s OK to be “not popular” for drifting away from the narcs in your life. Still very hard to go through the criticism and shaming of people around!

  44. How to tell the difference between a narcissist and a normal person: ignore them. The normal person won't care, the narcissist however will lose their mind and either obsess over it, try to win you over, or retaliate somehow.

  45. For people like me who have been trauma bonded in childhood and having to overcome after decades of trial and error. Your work of teaching people about the problems of narcissisism is a big relief.
    I'm proud to be discerning and set boundaries…

  46. I come from a family of enablers; I have a slightly more disagreeable personality than all of them, so when our views inevitably differed even regarding minor things, I’d get chastised by the whole family as if I had slapped somebody. After thinking on it a great deal, I gave myself permission to think freely with this: yes, I can be a craptastic person, but so can other people – letting other people indiscriminately pile their crap onto mine doesn’t make me a less crappier person. If anything, it’s entirely more likely to leave me worse off rather than be anything resembling a “difficult but constructive criticism”, so it’s important to sort through each other’s crap first instead of swallowing it all wholesale. To sort what useful and what’s not, it’s essential to push back.

    Just like how in real life people would rather have a big bucket of feces dumped on someone else rather than on themselves, people will dump their problems and bad behaviour all over you if you let them. They’ll fight you when you push back, because you are threatening to shove their crappy problems that they don’t want to deal with right back into their faces.

    Viewing things in this way helped me frame my family’s resistance in a way I could understand. Hopefully it might help others.

  47. I'm here because the title seems odd. How to gate keep a narcissist? Definitely new education for me.
    Now we have arrived at, "discernment". The usual response I get amounts to, "It is unfair of you to correctly assess my behavior." or, "Correctly perceiving reality is a sign of mental illness." Short answer: gas lighting. The narcissist fears losing control of a person intelligent enough to decline their games and drama. Shaming is their method of trying to stay in control.

  48. I recognize I have attachment issues , some Codep issues for sure and even a couple BPD traits (that hugely faded over the decades from age , wisdom, observation and self awareness. And an SSRI ,& a low dose of clonozopam lol)
    So I am aware I attract and am attracted TO cluster b, mainly npd. I have a friend who loves the education I pass on and she’s self aware also – both of us know it’s not coincidental we ineluctably draw in npd nor does it make us victims – of course ppl with abandonment wounds run into cluster b everywhere – whereas a secure attachment style person or someone without many abandonment issues or just a really healthy family of origin – would not be as often attracted to or by cluster b – and good boundaries would screen most of them out pretty much at first interaction so they may think we are over reacting or being fussy but what they aren’t saying is “I can tell you have some serious issues so no wonder you end up with douchebags and maybe it’s actually YOU or at least 1/2 your doing “ which would be harsh but honestly there are enough poor Me’s running around bouncing from cluster b to cluster b and living in a victim mentality about it which itself is narcissistic (as many codeps are)
    No judgement . I went way too far down the rabbit hole to the point of being involved with an npd for years while knowing exactly what I’m dealing with , manipulating back, going through his eventual self realization (they can become self aware and still they are a narcissist- even change behaviours , lose a lot of the false self – try and want to be non npd but obv they can’t. ) And I STILL get drawn back into the shared fantasy occasionally from a good dose of lovebombing .

    I think being shamed by the NPD for being discerning is more annoying . Esp now that it’s in the open what he is and why I’m the way I am

    Other ppl – I used to go on about npd till I realized I sound like a fool plus really until I have the PhD beside my name at bare minimum I really shouldn’t be talking lol
    Also if one speaks from authentic personal authority and education- keep any explanation brief – ppl respect it . Choose carefully your besties that you run all the red flags by for input

  49. This hit the nail on the head and resonated so much…every last word! The moral of the story is always trust yourself! Your gut will never lead you astray. Thanks so much Dr Ramani!🙏🏻🤗💛🙏🏻

  50. I don't mind being considered 'judgey', in fact I tell them because of the behaviors of a few I will judge everyone who looks like them and just stay away. Extreme, yes, and they know that they caused it.

  51. I always listened to problems of one friend I had, and I came to realisation that nobody is ever good enough for her. She was (and probably still is) extremely emotionally immature and was waiting for everybody around her to take blame for her own feelings that were mostly caused by her own fragile ego. I listened to her complaining because I thought that she was trying to explain something to herself by talking to me. Big unseen plot twist, no she wasn't. She really believed all the delusions that painted her as a victim and was using complaining as a way to gaslight people around her to believe the same. But I don't know if it was by mistake or she thought she killed off enough of my brain, she started complaining about the subject that I had really strong feelings and was informed about. My patience ran out and I told her that she was dumb for thinking that way and that she should get help. Maybe it wasn't nice of me but I exploded and gave myself the right to do so. So for finale, I guess I can say that I got discarded with most wicked parting message one could imagine. It was like she mixed parts of truth with her own messed up narative. Aiming for everything that can hurt you and that she thinks can hurt you. Painting me as this problematic person that she always had to put up with (Implying that she is a victim once again, yes i rolled my eyes. It was really getting old and seethrough at this point.), and painting herself as this good person that doesnt deserve anything bad that happens to her while she spews some of the most toxic shit I have ever read in my face.
    Anyways, don't be friends with people who talk badly about the others behind their backs. Especially when that includes a mutual deceased friend.

  52. Yeah, I just love it when people say, ”don't judge!” or "only God can judge." And I just say to them, "well, clearly, you believe in God, so do you want to explain to me why God gave us the power of discernment if we are not supposed to use it? Do you really think that He expected we would just blithely go through life accepting everything and every behavior from everybody? So we're not supposed to use the brain that God gave us or the intuition Etc.?" I mean, that's ridiculous! (Hmmm, maybe this does explain however why a large portion of Americans who call themselves Christians accept blatantly narcissistic behavior from certain persons in leadership positions.)

    Furthermore, if someone is trying to be biblical and say, "judge, lest not ye be judged"…that doesn't mean "don't judge!" It really means be careful when you judge people, cuz the spotlight might get turned back on you and you might have some stuff (you don't want scrutinized.) But what it doesn't mean is, don't make good choices based on other people's bad behavior.

    But I do wholly agree that it is probably best to just quietly exercise your discernment and not explain yourself to people or announce it. Even if you're not 100% right about someone, you have a right to not have someone involved in your life. It's your life.

  53. What if you never knew you were a narcissist or you didn't realize that the way you acted was narcissistic and you're in love with an empath and a borderline and you just don't know what to do you just think you're being yourself but you might really be a narcissist but you love her so much you want to change how do you fix this

  54. Dr. Ramani, you are so correct on all of your observations concerning narcissist. Unless someone has experienced first hand, the devastation and trauma a narcissist causes, they just won’t understand. I will NEVER apologize or cede to others opinions concerning how I choose to deal with a person who presents red flags.

  55. I can relate to this! I have been using discernment without knowing it. This I feel is something I developed in childhood, as a result from being abused by a narcissist. I have literally given up relationships, because I didn't want my partner pulled trough the wrecklessness and turmoil. I didn't want them targeted like I was. I belive this is why I steered away from some coworkers in the past as well. Kinda like a built in gaydar. You instinctly know when you are around a narcissist and you know it's going to be trouble.

  56. well i am a witch and proud of it. anyone who has EVER said this sh*t to me (i'm difficult, i expect too much blah blah blah or they were trying to screw me over) has had a history of drug use, enabling, etc. Every Bloody One of Them. When you've lived for long enough on this f***ing planet, you can't help but see the patterns. when you are young, you cannot see them (you may sense them but they're so ugly you don't want to believe they could be true). i have an older relative who screwed over his own mother (and in the process all the rest of us), his kid got in my face accusing me of 'being angry.' this guy has a history of….guess what? Yup.

    The only people who have a problem with our gatekeeping are those who want to screw us over (or fear the wrath of the N so they work on N's behalf by promoting N's agenda). I don't need anyone questioning my choices, my boundaries. The very idea is absurd.

  57. This hits home.’ Anyone else get accused of being judgmental simply for being discerning?? It happens to me frequently in early dating… I ask questions, I notice red flags, I set a boundary… that’s when it happens. Discernment ≠ judgment!

  58. Discernment and the hardness to walk away and not forgive poisonous people who don’t deserve it are essential for self-preservation off the back of narcissistic half-‘friendships’/relationships.

  59. Dr Ramani are all racists narcissists, I don't think you can be racist and not be a narcissist. I treat everyone the same even if they're pink red or blue, one eyed or twelve, maybe because I was always treated like a burden i look at everyone worthy of love, I couldn't make it any other way

  60. Nailed it! … He's such a nice guy, oh they meant well, your so lucky… on and on. Daily work on boundaries and finessing the communication. Thank you once again. ❤️

  61. At 56 yrs old I have lived with two parents both narcissists and alcoholics, and an ex spouse who was also narcissist. Two years ago I was dating a guy who had the gall to try gaslighting me, among other manipulations, so out the door with him. Sometimes now I feel like I must be "black-and-white thinking" and that I'm acting like a narc myself for being so staunch on my anti-narc/anti-ahole position and it often feels like I no longer have the deep empathy for others I once had, but I realize now that it's much more simple than that – I am older and wiser and I have absolutely zero tolerance for douchebaggery! It feels like a super power!! I am proud of myself for no longer being the doormat of those lesser-evolved and frankly useless people. Stay strong!!!


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